updates

Discusion of Pishtech's game VR Sportfishing

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Re: updates

Postby pat10 » Wed May 06, 2009 6:25 pm

Wow those pics look great! Great job! So since lake trout are typically an open water free roaming fish in deeper waters how will they be represented in the game? Will they just roam the deeper waters on the move non stop? unlike the bass, walleyes, and pike that hold to cover. Yeh as far as muskie lures to save time and get some lures quick larger versions of them would work just fine. In reality a bucktail is just a giant inline spinner, muskie spinnerbaits are just big bass spinnerbaits, and so on. I do have a couple of quick questions on the lake editor. First, can we adjust water clarity? Second, can we place the weeds and logs in certain spots or do we just adjust the amount that will show up on the lake and they are randomly placed?
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Re: updates

Postby pat10 » Wed May 06, 2009 7:03 pm

Well I just definitely got more excited about the potential for muskies. Decided to do some casting for pike on Eagle Lake just now and smashed my all time best pike record with a 39.3" 18.7lb monster. Still trying to crack 40" but after seeing how big that fish was I cant even imagine a larger muskie.
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Re: updates

Postby paul » Wed May 06, 2009 7:50 pm

I'm adding some muskies up to 50 inches in the midwestern lakes, so they should rough up your tackle.

The lake trout will move seasonally. They'll be much more prone to cruising than resting. In the early spring and late fall they can be in shallow water, but in the heat of the summer they'll go deep. Jigging 100 feet down will be a good way to fish for them. That reminds me... I don't think the reels in the game current hold enough line for such deep fishing. Another thing to change. And someday, maybe downriggers... :D

Yes, you can control the water clarity. As far as placement of weeds you can map the areas where vegetation can grow. Normally you do that with a map of the mud distrubution, so you don't get weeds growing out of pure sand or rock bottoms. Then you pick the concentration you want for different types of weeds (cabbage, milfoil, grass, pads, etc.) and the game automatically distributes the vegetation based on those parameters. It knows the appropriate depth range for different weeds, and will only have them growing where the bottom isn't excessively steep. I plan to do something similar for the distribution of trees. Right now it puts a random mix of tree types anywhere on land above an adjustable altitude, again not putting them where it's too steep. I'd like the steepness to be adjustable so you could put pine trees in that will grow on steeper slopes.

Right now the lighting in the game is constant (as it is in most if not all fishing games I've seen), but that's another thing I'd like to change in the future. I'd like to support dynamic lighting, so you can have long shadows at sunrise, etc. That would allow for fishing by moonlight, too. Next would be weather changing as the days goes on... Of course dynamic lighting will require a faster computer, so it would have to be optional, but as computers and video cards keep getting faster there's lot of possibilities to to keep improving the game...

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Re: updates

Postby AzDesertRat » Wed May 06, 2009 8:25 pm

Lookin' good Paul! Even though I prefer fishing cove shallows for the most part it will be great to have some lakes with deep water pockets, perfect for big channel cats:). I've been messing about with L3DT in preparation for the lake editor. So far I've successfully imported hi-res lidar scans of a couple small lakes that look good (sample overhead below). However, I think there is a size limitation with the basic edition of L3DT as I haven't been able to import any large area lakes yet. Pro version is very reasonably priced so I don't mind buying a copy if it can handle the data import. Just yesterday I was able to obtain a 2M scan of Lake Tahoe which is mammoth but would be a nice addition.

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Re: updates

Postby bassmaster12 » Wed May 06, 2009 9:19 pm

nice job there Paul cant wait got an idea for a lake. lets say granite cliffs and pine trees, with smallmouth, bluegills,perch,pike,muskie,catfish, and the rare trout or other wise known as hartley bay on the french river in ontario canada.

also there shoul be some salmon like chinooks on the western coast and atlantics in the eastern cost
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Re: updates

Postby paul » Wed May 06, 2009 9:33 pm

Very cool - I can't wait to see what you guys do with custom lakes.

I haven't tried importing a lot into L3DT. Can you downsize the data through some other means before importing it? For the heightfields in the game I use 1024x1024 bitmaps, but the amount of land that can cover is variable. Don't worry about the scale that L3DT has for the map since you can stretch the world laterally or vertically in the game.

Salmon are on the longer list of things to add eventually. I'd also like to see white bass, striped bass, sauger, several kinds of catfish (channel, flathead and blue for sure), carp, maybe gar, and maybe some other types of sunfish.

Still tuning the fish animation overhaul. They turn and swim much more smoothly now, but for some reason some of them keep swimming around with their mouths hanging open. Maybe they're surprised about something?

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Re: updates

Postby pat10 » Wed May 06, 2009 11:25 pm

Will it be possible to place timber in lets say 10-15 feet of water? The lake I wanted to create has a lot of fish cribs and timber in deeper parts of the lake which I would like to recreate. Also just a request, without knowing how big the muskies can get can you make it possible to catch a 50" muskie instead of them topping out at exactly 50. Hopefully the 50's will be very very rare but that 50" mark is always the trophy catch every muskie angler chases. Cant wait to see one of those things smash a bucktail.
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Re: updates

Postby wolf » Thu May 07, 2009 4:55 am

the rainbow look fantastic thanks for the reply on the wading. along with the trout and the lake editor i will be able to fish a little closer to home another good fish is the murrey cod can grow in excess of 30lbs ambush preaditor and great fighting be a suprise to be fish for trout and get slamed from no where fish getting snaged on log an so forth would add some realism anyway love the look at whats coming thanks for the great sim
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Re: updates

Postby paul » Thu May 07, 2009 2:59 pm

So far today I've just about got the muskies finished. The fish animation update is finished.

The way fish sizes work in the game is pretty closely modeled on real life: The sizes tend to run in a bell curve. About half the fish are between 1/3 and 1/2 of the maximum size, so in a lake with a 50 inch maximum possible muskie about 50% of the fish will be 25 inches or smaller. Only about 15 percent will be over 34 inches, etc. A 48 to 50 incher will be a pretty rare fish, just as a 44 inch pike is possible in Eagle Lake now, but a trophy like that won't come along very often. I'm looking forward to seeing those beasts cruising around, too. I'll tweak their behavior to make follows more common than with other fish, too. Just seeing 4 feet of predator inches behind your lure as you finish a retrieve should be a rush as it is in real life.

Sumberged timber and cribs (and more docks on the shoreline) are going to be a bit more work, at least to do it as well as it could be done. Right now the logs and stumps in the lakes are semi solid. That is, lures can snag on them, but line and fish can pass through them. I could easily add timber and cribs that way, and if you're fishing in the first person view you'd rarely if ever notice a fish passing through cover. With the lure cameras you'd see it more, though.

The reason those things aren't solid to the fish is the computer power required. The game is often doing AI for hundreds of fish within a few hundred feet of your boat. They check for collisions with each other, but to check each fish for possible collisions with every piece of cover down there would be a huge load and even really fast computers would have a tough time with that. Maybe for submerged cover like the wood it wouldn't be too bad to just handle timber like the weeds - snagable, but not an obstacle to the fish.

Then there's the matter of the boats hitting timber or docks. Since the number of boats is limited that should be more managable.

If flooded timber doesn't get in this udpate I'll follow up with another update within a few weeks to add that, and probably the wading, trolling, and catfish.

Oh yeah - for trolling, here's what I'm thinking of: It might be allowed only with the two smaller boats that you steer with a tiller while sitting in the rear. You're seated in the right place and you've got a hand free, so it wouldn't be too hard to add. Since you can now pick any boat up to the most expensive you've purchased that will let you take a tiller model when you want to troll.

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Re: updates

Postby paul » Thu May 07, 2009 3:48 pm

Here's a quick shot of one of the muskies now in Eagle Lake:
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Re: updates

Postby pat10 » Thu May 07, 2009 4:28 pm

Wow that muskie looks great. Yeh if they followed like real muskies that would be pretty cool! If the collision detection would be too difficult with stumps and standing timber than you are probably better off treating them like you would weeds.
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Re: updates

Postby bassmaster12 » Thu May 07, 2009 11:51 pm

cant wait for the muskies also if live bait is added you can add 3 types of minnows small ones for walleyes and panfish larger ones for trout and bass and suckers for pike and or muskie

oh yeah Paul glad to see the salmon can be added some 60+ lbs chinnok will be a blast to catch
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Re: updates

Postby bones » Fri May 08, 2009 6:06 pm

hello one and all :D haven't posted for a while but saw the update thread...and thought whoooooooo hooooooooo anyway just a few ideas :lol: what to do with all this money?
1... you could spend it on restocking lakes with bigger fish/species
2...use the money to enter live online matches
3...buy different lakes from uploaded user lakes
4...paul converts all our money into real cash :mrgreen: <<<<<my favorite
kind regards bones
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Its better to have hooked a fish and lost it.Than to have never hooked a fish at all :p
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Re: updates

Postby wolf » Sat May 09, 2009 6:46 am

updates sound like there coming along well pual good job :) would it be possible to add a re-fueling place at or near the dock and or even a spare tank to buy at the bait shop would be ideal for when the trolling comes just a sugestion thx.
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Re: updates

Postby AzDesertRat » Mon May 11, 2009 10:42 pm

I like the idea of using money earned to enter live online tourneys. Since netcoding can be a very difficult task, notably to have connected users physically on the lake at the same time in synch with boat/fishing animations, catches, etc, I think a simpler mode could still be very effective. All users connect to the server for a time sanctioned event. During the tourney whenever a fish is landed by an angler all participants would see a text flash at the top corner of their screen indicating the angler and type of fish caught only. All anglers would then have to return to the boat launch area for weigh-ins where each fisherman would have his/her catch rung up one at a time (in order of time returned for weigh-in). This would act to simulate the excitement of a real tourney weigh-in event. I thought this was handled beautifully in the old Hank Parker's Bassin' Black Bass title on the SNES sytem, considering how limited the graphics capabilities were on that console.

Top 3 could win VR cash prizes and/or equipment (special version bass boat for official events :P ). Also, maybe awards for largest fish of each species. Lots of possibilities. Sure it would be nice to see others on the water in real time but if the development cycle for this feature will take a while I'd much prefer a simple multiplayer format to meet up with others and compete in tourneys.
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