1st Quarter 2008 Season Cup - 1st Contest starts now!

RWFF game announcements and discussion (off-topic posts will be deleted)

Moderators: Scottish Warrior, Yellowstone7, richwest, Pitti

Postby dcarp » Sun Jan 27, 2008 7:48 pm

Hello my feuding family!

I think the best comment I've seen so far is Shanski -people are taking this way too serious!

If we're going to have a vote for the ugliest fish - I want my Sturgeon to win! Too me, there is not an uglier fish than him in the game. He's thousands of years old, eats rotting things on the bottom and guess what? He's right here in the good old USA!

I don't know how many folks subscribe to fly fishing magazines, but the last several I've picked up have had articles on "Carp on the Fly". It's becoming quite popular here in the States. Growing up in southern Idaho fishing on the Snake river, I caught 9 "trash fish" (suckers, carp, squaw fish, etc) for every "game fish" (trout, bass, perch, catfish, etc.) . Like Carol, I threw the trash fish on the bank for the coyotes and cats to eat. Personally, I can't wait to make a trip back there this spring during spawning season and try some of the flies that have been posted lately. I think it would be quite a thrill to hook into a 6-8 lb. Carp with a fly rod. I know I enjoyed catching them on bait & tackle rigs.

Should we ask Paul to break the game into 12 seperate peices?

Real World Trout Fishing
Real World Bass Fishing
Real World Steelhead Fishing
Real World Salmon Fishing
Real World Panfish Fishing
Real World Chub, Barbel, Carp Fishing
Real World Flats Fishing
Etc., etc.

That way nobody has to have their computer "tainted" by a species they don't like..........

Maybe we should go a step further and get non-native fish out of the game too. Get those imported brown trout out of US waters, and hybridized rainbows, hatchery steelhead, etc. etc.

Isn't this getting a little bit ridiculous? It's really quite simple: If you don't want to participate - DON'T! Tell you what... if we go fishin for brown trout every week in the same river/creek, I doubt many folks are going to stay involved.

Our community is growing. Some of us enjoy the opportunity to see and fish in places we'll never see in real life, and catch fish we've never seen or even heard of before!

Hey Carpman (cousin).... looks like you and me have to pack up our rods and go home, we're not welcome here anymore............ :wink:

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Postby richwest » Sun Jan 27, 2008 7:55 pm

Sorry Guys,

I think some of us have never hooked a carp of over 12kg., Its no trash then, you better call this a dumpstertruck!

It can take over 40 mins. to get it in, it's real hard work and it's as much excitement as catching a big salmomoide.

In the Netherlands and lots of other places in Europe there's no wild salmon to be found, so we have to do with "your" trash.

Regards Richard

P.S. It's just a game and everyone has the same chance on winning.
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Postby Boston Bob » Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:44 pm

Okay, here's my 2 cents on this matter. First People are having more dialog than ever before on this forum, that's good. I have fished every contest even though on some I don't have a chance in hell to beat anyone. That is my choice.

What I like most about these contests is that they get me onto many waters I haven't fished extensively before. In one stretch of 4 weeks we added 17 new fishing locations to the game. I sure as heck haven't fished all of these yet. Like Carol I do look at all the sites because they are beautiful and it's interesting to see the other countries etc., but there are some that I haven't fished yet. Having different sites in the contests enables me to get onto that water and do some fishing.

I want to thank everyone who had anything to do with adding a fishing location to this game. It's our choice whether to download, fish or keep any site on our computers.

If people don't like the contest format, I'm sure everyone is open to their ideas. Tell us what your choice would be. Let's be part of the solution not part of the problem.

Boston Bob
Fishing isn't all I do, but it's what I like to do best !
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Postby nccorthu » Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:17 am

In response to Boston Bob’s suggestion of proposing some rule changes here are suggestions I have garnered from other people to cover their concerns.

1. A rule that whoever is holding the codes can't fish the contests
2. That the decoder be someone other than the contest manager.
3. That should non official sites be used that developers of those sites cannot fish in the contests.
4. Or those contests only are on Official sites or sites officially accepted by Paul for contests.

That input is requested of the membership for contest ideas and that there be some sort of consensus and acceptance of the proposed contests.

None of this matters to me very much but is based on the concerns of others who have dropped out of the contests or active participation.

For Paul to sell Edition 4 one day he needs happy customers and that means a nice clubhouse and lots of add-ons and good participation and fun in contests.

700 updates bring him in more than 7 and I would say he can use it.
Anyone have other suggestions?

I would be happy to help in any way anyone would like.
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Postby dcarp » Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:35 am

Hello Everyone,

I'm going to start off by aplogizing, because this is going to upset some people I'm sure.....

If I'm hearing this right, the suggestions are that the poeple that volunteer their personal time and talent to make new species, make new outings, collect the dozens of emails, decode the hundreds of scores, use their personal web space to host the clubhouse, update the web pages, answer questions and help other users of the game "SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO TAKE PART IN THE CONTESTS!!!!!!!!!

Again, if I'm hearing this right, the suggestion is that Peter, Massimo and I and others should continue to dedicate several hours of our time each week - time we could be spending with our families, time we could spend leisurely playing on our computers or time we could be out fishing for real - so that the rest of the RWFF community can enjoy the contests, download new outings, etc. etc.

I've heard the acusations of cheating, having unfair advantage, etc. and I think it's pure BS!! The suspicians and distrust make me sick! We are all here for the same reason - we love to fish and we love the game. Some of us like the idea of taking the tools that Paul has generously shared with us and have personalized it more to our liking. We've shared what we've made with the group hoping that others may enjoy it as well.

At the beginning of the contests, Peter was doing all the work. He built the clubhouse from the ground up. He has spent hours upon hours getting to this point. I volunteered to give him a hand a few months back because I could tell he was getting frustrated. I ran a couple of the contests and began to feel his frustrations. TOO Hard, TOO Easy, Let's fish for Bass, Let's fish for Trout only, Let's fish for Salmoids only, etc. etc. etc. At times it seems as if nobody is happy with the contest. The few thanks you get keep you going amoungst all the complaints and whining, but it does wear on you very quickly. Massimo took over recently and that's been a big help! Cut him some slack here folks. The only "payment" you get for spending your weekends and evenings administering a contest is a handful of "Thank Yous" and those are coming few and far between around here these days!

Peter and I were asked numerous times in the past to please join in the contests we ran. There was trust around here then. Maybe that is gone for good now. What's that old saying about "walking a mile in another persons shoes"? I have one for you - spend a few hours at the other person's computer desk. I'm not sure that the complainers realize what that's like. You try and organize a contest that everyone will like. You can't please all the people all the time!

You think I'm a cheat and a liar? Fine, that's your opinion. Just PM me directly with your feelings, but after you do so, please stop sending me your score codes and your big catches, or your questions, or requests for help with your new fish species or outings. I'm going to be too busy to do that. I'll be sitting down with my family for dinner, or tying some flies, or going fishing - or I might just be leisurely enjoying Massimo's next contest or working on some flies for Peter's flytying contest.

Maybe you're not calling me a cheat and a liar, you're just calling my friends that. Same goes - next time you head to the lake or river, while you are there - take a flying leap! There is no European conspiracy! What is there to gain? I sure as heck haven't lost any sleep becuase I didn't win a RWFF Clubhouse contest...............

Fun and Friendly International Community of Virtual Fly Fisherman - that's what we are in jeopardy of trashing here.........

I've said enough, or too much..... I need to cool off and log off for a while. Maybe I'll go fish that frigid outing in Finland, that should do it. Of course, I'll probably lose some of my American friends because I'm such a traitor............

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Postby richwest » Mon Jan 28, 2008 6:34 am


I go with you, and we will have a good time fishing.

Regards Richard
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Postby Pitti » Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:13 am


Thank you very much for your words. I never could say it better!

Yesterday at the evening I sat at the computer, drang a coffee, reading this thread. My thoughts: If we get again only 3 participants for the current contest, wouldn't it be better to close the Clubhouse or deliver it to other interested guys? Perhaps nccorthu would be interested? Only some thoughts..

While we're at it. Dave, Massimo and Bob, thank you so much for clubhouse-work!! Nobody of the guys knows how much work it is to calculate the contest-scores or to update the trophy-page and so on....

@all: And I feel a must to say it again. Nobody of the friends who helps on the clubhouse, get anything for it. We are not Pishtech! Do you know what it costs, if Bob or other send you a prizes like flies? Every small packet from USA to Europe or back costs about $10, payed by the sender! Same for this guys whose send and donate flies as prizes! (Thank you very much by the way).

Perhaps now the frustration of the admins is comprehensible, if they get this lot of discontent from community-side.

And a last word to nccorthu about cheating. How many Pitties, Dcarps, Oppimax and Bobcat Johns can you find on the Throphy List? And be sure, it would be sooo easy to set us at the tops. ;)

Regards Peter
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Postby oppimax » Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:16 pm

Ciao! :D

Peter, Dave, Richard and all other friends...I agree with you.

I said nothing till now afraid for my bad english but now I want to say that....

I like (and I would like) to fish everywhere and any specie of fish - in RWFF and in real life (thx for new outings and species!).

I've been fishing since I was 8 (now I'm 48 ); I used bait, spinning and now flies; I always released my catches, taking a picture, but only no-kill!

In our rivers, fishing with a fly rod, is much more difficult to hook a spooky chub than an hungry trout! So catching a chub or a barbel means you have done every thing in the correct way!

I think mine is a passion because after a ride along the river without a catch (and they were a lot!), going back home, I'm always thinking about next ride: where, how big next fish could be and so on!

I've not many opportunities to go fishing so RWFF and his Community is a very good occasion to meet other anglers, places and fishes not so "virtual" as most of people could think.

Peter asked me for an help managing contests; I'm proud of it and I'll manage it as well as I can till he (or you all) will say me to stop it.

I play contests as I'm like anyone in the Community. I play the same game and rules everyone plays.

It takes me time to manage, to think new kind of contests hoping that most of people could enjoy it.

For that I've few time to create new outings and I love it very much thinking is a little piece of your emotions inserted in the game and disposable for who wants to fish there.

Now I'm working on a new idea but we need a big participation so, before starting it, I'll need to know who is in! .....Coming soon...I hope!

As I now in a Community there MUST be different opinions and suggestions to have a real living Community...here I'm!

That's only my personal opinion on Fly Fishing, RWFF and is fantastic world! :wink:

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Postby richwest » Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:02 pm


When I can find the time, you can count me in.

I am very busy on creating new species, with the help of Dave (Dcarp), my old machine refuses to render, some how.

And besides that, I am very busy on creating new outing with these new species!

And ofcourse the catalogue takes some of my time too, new update coming soon.

Rest of the time I have to go to work and keep my family happy.

Regards Richard
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Postby taupo_tiger » Mon Jan 28, 2008 6:14 pm



i had 27 answers to the last few posts

i finished a round trough the competition waters without any trash fish - unfortunately without a lawyer as a witness...........

i did not post them

all i want to express:

pliiiiiiiiiiiiizzzzzzzzzzzz keep up the good work, you three!!!! ( massimo, dave and peter)

pliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiizzzzzzzzzzzz count on me if you need help ( i cannot fly tie step by step, but if there is some work i can do let me know)

pliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiizzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz all you doubting cheat expecting members................


all the best from vienna,
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Postby nccorthu » Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:12 pm

Sure a lot of flaming going on. Yes keep up the effort and I will be happy to help. Though that will not be responded to.
I suggested a couple of fixes to remove some perceptions held by a number of people in the contests. Whether they are true or not is irrelevant. The fact is that a few months ago there were a good number of contestants now there are fewer and they are shrinking. Ask yourselves why. Why do so few participate? Why are offers to help by others ignored?
Yes there is a huge amount of work in this. Yes its volunteer work. And I agree that the kudos are maybe thin on occasions.
However if it’s only appreciated by 6 people is there not a problem that needs addressing?
The issue really has little to do with fish species and how many other than that some of us do not want to spend much time on some Outings for various reasons. That’s OK too.
Let’s work to fix the problem not exacerbate it.
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Postby shanksi » Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:12 pm

Sorry to see this happening on this forum but have witnessed the same thing on other fly fishing forums. As my previous posting we seem to be losing sight of the fact that this is only a game which we are supposed to get pleasure from.
A lot of the guys on here have spend a lot of their time making up new sites for us to fish and to organise comps for us to take part in and for them to have to defend themselves I think is outrageous.
I know I haven't taken part in most of the recent comps but I have been trying to keep up and try the new sites that have appeared recently.

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I hate to see this happening

Postby Bobcat John » Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:30 pm

Hi everyone I'm Bobcat John
I have been fishing the contest since they started and a lot of the time I was last. I also was the Prize Adminstrator until recently because of problems with my wifes health I had to step aside I hope to still fish once and awhile and I will try to donate flies whenI can. I think that some of the problems going on is a miss understanding on how the program works and what we were asking a game to do that it was not orginally designed to do. Paul has been working hard to make the game work better with the needs of the contest.

When we first strated I wanted Piti to join the contest just like the rest of us. The reason I was not worried because of the way that the fish are placed. They are placed by a radom generator and even if you made the outing you would not know how the fish would be placed thus making it even for everyone. The developer of a outing might have an idea on what he is placing and what there feeding tendences might be. Each player has the chance to get an idea of fish placement by going into the cheater mode and looking at the fish. would this be cheating depends on if you class using a fishfinder cheating because the next time you go into the game the fish will be different places just in the same general area.

I have always been open to catching all types of fish and trying new area now with my wifes health problems this game might be my chance to see some of the other areas in the world. I like Dcarp have been seeing a lot of articles on fly fishing for carp I know that we are spoiled in the US because we have some of the great fishing waters and they are open to the public a lot of place in the world the great waters are under private control and I woudl not be able to afford to fish them.

I would like to see a contest for all the fish we have and for on as we add new fish. I have never caught a carp on a fly but I have caught them on light spinning tackle 6 pound stest and a 10 to 15 carp will make you wonder if you can turn it. I think that we have room for all types of fish in the game if you don't like to fish for certain types of fish don't join in that contest I beleive that we have room in our club for all types of fish and fisherpersons.

I have made suggestions for problems I have found and suggestions for contest If I have given anyone an Idea that I was demanding something I apoligize for the impression but with my wifes health problems I some times come across a little short and gruff. I enjoy the contest and I enjoy seeing who the winner is and what their score was I am proud of every winner and every one who joined in the contest.

We have had one contest put together by Oppimax I say give him a chance and see if you get some contest you like in the future. If you don't like the contest I'm sure Oppimax wouldn't mind some help creating a contest and giving him a break once and a while.

Please remember that this is our club and if you don't like how something is done step up and help fix it. Don't just say that you will help get in and do something to help. This club could use more people to tie flies and donate to the prize pool and I'm sure that Piti and Dcarp could use help with the club house maybe some one could write some articles about the different sites and fishing methods. I'm sure that Oppimax could use some help with the contest. We are having our first fly tying contest and I'm sure that piti could use some help with it.

This is a new year why don't we just let the past lay and move on with the future.
I've spent the most important time of my life fishing. What was left over I wasted.

Bobcat John

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Postby Cutch » Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:37 pm

Simmer down, folks :wink:

It's a game :!:
EVERYONE should be able to play ALL contests if they disire to do so.

Another point:
Check out each contest, it you like it play it, if something about the contest isn't to your liking,.....DON'T PLAY IT :!:
SIMPLE SOLUTION,...EH? (I thought so) :wink:
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Postby dcarp » Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:11 pm

My friends in the RWFF Community,

I want to apologize for my outbust a couple days back. I wrote out of anger and frustration over what I felt were personal attacks against my friends here that have dedicated hundreds of hours of their personal time to making this community what it is today.

I think that there is some confusion about the relationship between the Real World Fly Fishing computer game and the RWFF Clubhouse and RWFF Contests. They are completely seperate entities. They are tied together in many ways, but are not part of the same company, employee base, etc. etc.

The game is developed, maintained and marketed by Paul. He is the genious behind it and as far as I am aware, the sole proprietor. He hosts this forum and allows for discussions about the game. He has also provided the users with tools for creating outings and species to add to the game.

The RWFF Clubhouse, Contests, Library, Fly Displays, Medal and Cups, etc. etc. were created by Peter (Pitti) and is maintained and hosted on his personal web space. Peter has created tools that are used in conjuction with the game (chat, color picker for rods and lines, indicator options, etc. etc.) - these items are free of charge to users of the game. On Peter's site, he also provides lists and links to other downloads and addons - custom flys, fly boxes, fly tying materials, etc. that either he has made or orther users have made. He also hosts the Club Library that contains river guides, member profiles, and other reference books. Again, these items are free to other users of the game.

Keep in mind, these two things are completely seperate entities! A person can utilize the Clubhouse without owning the RWFF computer game. They can browse the Fly Room, the Library, etc. etc. Same goes in reverse - A person can own the RWFF game and never take advantage of the resources at the Clubhouse. Buying the game does not entitile you to ownership of the Clubhouse, just as browsing the clubhouse does not give you ownership of a copy of the RWFF game. There is also no requirement that a person download all the new outings, species, flies etc. created by other users. That is a personal decision. A person is not required, nor are they given special entitlement to participate in any contest or competition put on by the Clubhouse.

Conversely, there is no restriction on any user that would prohibit them from hosting and creating their own contests or competitions as they see fit. And if they were to do so, they would have the ability to create the rules as they see fit, choose what species and outings to include and even find space on the web to post thier scores, winner lists, etc. etc. They could choose to make their contests exclusive, by invitation only, or open it to all users of the game. In reality, we could have hundreds of different "clubhouses".

Personally, I love what Peter has created. I am honored to have been asked to help and be a part of it and contribute in my way. I thoroughly enjoy my firendship with him and the other people who contribute to HIS clubhouse that he built for all of US. I enjoy our "administrator" meetings on Sunday afternoons using the chat program that HE made. I appreciate discussing with Massimo his ideas for contests and competitions, and am always surprised by his amazing ideas for the future. He has some great stuff coming folks! Stay tuned! I have enjoyed being involved in the Prize Pool that Bobcat John got started. And although he has become too busy to continue in that capacity, he will still be a big part of the Clubhouse organization. Peter and I will be each taking on a portion of that job now. Peter will handle European prize distribution and I will handle the North American side of things. We've split that up to cut down on the expenses of shipping prizes overseas - which by the way, Bobcat was paying for all along! And his stable of talented tyers that have been sending him flies at their own expense - Carolmo, Fishinmusician, Taupo, and others (I'm sorry if I missed anyone) - Thank you Bobcat and crew!

There are numerous contributors that are part of this community that volunteer their time, their talent and thier help and advice. In reality, I'm pretty new around here and there are probably more people doing things for the community than I realize. It's a great organization to be a part of.

I guess that's the long winded version of what some of the "old timers" around here are saying - the Clubhouse is a voluteer outfit! And as a user of the game you are neither entitled, nor are you required to participate in it's activities.

If you'd like the short - Readers Digest condensed version of this post, please see Cutch's response above............. :wink:

Again, I apologize for my earlier outburst and will take Cutch's and other's advice and just "simmer down".

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